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URL: http://www.collegian.com/index.php/article/2011/05/stern_were_better_than_this
Current Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:34:43 -0600
Stern: We're better than this
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Did Osama bin Laden fund atrocities and deserve justice? Without question. But what else should we understand?
Without an incompetent federal government, there is no Osama bin Laden.
In 2008 during the South Carolina GOP primary debate, Rep. Ron Paul had the extraordinary courage to identify American foreign policy’s role in the attacks of 9/11 and how B=bin Laden expressed he was quite pleased our military was deployed in response as it made Americans much easier to target.
Paul suggested we listen to our enemies when they explain why they have attacked us and cited one explanation of 9/11 was our continuing hostilities with Iraq, a Muslim nation, for more than 10 years.
“We’re building an embassy in Iraq that’s bigger than the Vatican, we’re building 14 permanent bases, what would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico?” Paul said. “We would be objecting, we need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would we do if someone did it to us.”
An apoplectic Rudy Giuliani said, “That’s an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of Sept. 11. That we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq.”
When Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul suggests military intervention overseas foments hostility toward America, we recoil in horror as if hearing the emperor is naked.
The U.S. military is not to blame. Congress and the White House are.
I cannot claim with any degree of honesty to understand the devotion of people willing to die for their religion, but I most definitely accepted when I deployed to Kuwait in 1999 and Iraq in 2003, I was willing to die for the foreign policy decisions of my civilian leaders.
I cannot and will not say such a foolish thing ever again. The military has become the enforcement arm of one of the most corrupt congregations outside of Wall Street.
We have to recognize that consequences exist for government actions and we have a moral obligation to put an end to this cycle of electing the most narcissistic and morally bankrupt candidates available.
One man with deep pockets struggles to find supporters, one man with deep pockets recruiting in a region awash in violence and religious rule for decades against a singular visible enemy? You have a harder time finding your keys.
Again, for those who have made it this far, I do not blame the military but the elected. The repeated theme of military empires is contempt for the government and people to which they belong regardless of how the military conducts itself. Military presence results in animosity regardless of intent.
One needs only watch “Life of Brian” to understand the hatred germinated by an occupying military. Romanes eunt domus.
Since the attacks of 9/11, nearly a million people in the two nations have died as a consequence of violence either at the hands of the U.S. military executing the orders of the fetid swamp or insurgent acts of terror within their own borders.
One million from two countries with populations of approximately 60 million combined. We lost 3,000 in the initial attack of 9/11 and another 6,018 killed and thousands more wounded in the military since 2001.
We have a population of 300 million. To suffer to the same levels as the Afghanistan and Iraqi people we have to lose 5 million. How would we feel if the 3,000 lost in 9/11 were 5 million over 10 years?
Imagine Los Angeles and San Diego’s populations disappeared at the hands of China. Angry yet?
How do we look at the world through a filter that ignores the animosity this idiotic foreign policy breeds? Both parties since the late 1800s have perpetuated this lunacy.
Bin Laden is dead. Images of Americans dancing in the streets broadcast all around the world. Just like the Palestinians after hearing about the attacks of 9/11.
How did we look to the world?
What have we learned?
Bin Laden is dead. His followers remain.
Seth J. Stern feels like a buzz kill but was happy to hear the news. His column appears Tuesdays in the Collegian. Letters and feedback can be sent to letters@collegian.com.
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23 comments
“Bin Laden is dead. Images of Americans dancing in the streets broadcast all around the world. Just like the Palestinians after hearing about the attacks of 9/11.”
There is a very distinct difference between celebrating the death of innocents and celebrating the death of evil. Clearly you’ve compared oranges to apples.
J. Phillips…
The Palestinians thought the exact same way you just did. Just reversed…
The point is, the violence never ends if both sides perceives the other as evil (regardless who is truly right and wrong).
If we truly view the middle east as evil, nuke ‘em and be done. Obviously, we don’t feel that way. But who are we, a 300 year old country, to interfere in the culture / civil wars thousands of years in the making.
I’ve watched with very mixed emotions as the country has celebrated, the majority seeming not to understand this isn’t the end to anything but the life of one man who has many ready to follow where he left off. Many who have already been trained to do so. While I was relieved to hear the news, there was no joy. I don’t understand dancing in the streets over this. I’m not mourning his death, don’t misunderstand me, but it changes nothing. It won’t bring back those who died on 9/11 and certainly won’t bring back our men and women in uniform who have died since – or come home broken physically and/or emotionally.
We are fighting, with great cost, an enemy we created. Until the United States learns to stop creating the people we will ultimately fight to destroy, we’re going to see this cycle over and over. We’re a “superpower” constantly creating/empowering/assisting our own villains.
I am grateful for our military, just tired of seeing them used over and over again without regard for the consequences.
How would western civilization continue to exist if the corrupt, narcissistic fools who make up the political class could not send innocent youth to die in their wars?
I also take issue with this sentence: “The military has become the enforcement arm of one of the most corrupt congregations outside of Wall Street.” The truth is the DC gaggle has long been owned by wall street so there is no logic in separating them.
Good column. Death to the war mongers. (Yes, I understand the irony in that statement-and no, it is not seriously intended.)
Great work, Stern! You hit the nail on the head.
1 man dies.
10 take his place.
In the religion of Islam, Martyrdom is very important, we’ve only made things worse.
Solid article Seth and it’s a shame most Americans do not see the truth like you do. I am sure many would just say you are anti-American and ignore that you put your life on the line twice for the supposed country and they have no right to question you. It’s funny how many former or even current people in service feel the exact way you do while it is the people at home away from any danger and actually seeing what the effect has on those areas and the people there who spew forth the garbage.
The problem is simply that it is human nature to not really think about the point of view of others and just think you and only you matters and that mentality gets expanded when it comes to people of a country or even say a religion.
I am not American but I have been saying for years that the U.S (and by extension other western countries) need to just lay off the middle east and in doing so a lot of hostility would be gone. Your example of China invading the U.S is perfect yet I am sure it’d fall on deaf ears of most Americans who drink too much red white and blue kool-aid to get it.
What I find interesting is so many will refuse to accept that as an option. Clearly trying to be a presence there isn’t working and keeps the cycle going so why not try the other option?
One must wonder just what the situation would be like for most Americans right now if those stupid wars never took place to try and get revenge against a single group of people. 1.2 trillion dollars has been spent on the wars and then by extension one must look at the economic impact of that expenditure across the country and even the world which no doubt is in the trillions. All that to try and get some revenge which has done more harm than good and added to more innocent lives-both American and others- being lost. Insane.
Nice piece, thanks for talking about Ron Paul. I’m going to be voting for him this year for sure. He was the only Republican in play who recognized this.
James
@James Don’t worry. he always talks about Ron Paul – even when he’s supposed to be writing a piece about the reaction to the death of Osama bin Laden. I’m glad you 2 are voting for him, though because nobody else is.
@Celui Many of my fellow soldiers, friends, and family are voting for Ron Paul. So I guess thats a little more than just 2. READ LIBERTY DEFINED! Then come on here and explain why you ridicule Ron Paul supporters. And Celui I would love to hear you are voting for????
Thanks for your comments Seth!
I’ve lived overseas now for almost 10 years so I’ve kind of lost touch with what it’s like living in the states. But seeing the images of the celebrations in DC and NYC sparked by bin Laden’s death made me feel a bit embarrassed as an American quite frankly. In fact, the first thing that came to mind was exactly the point you made about the Palestinians dancing in the street after 9/11. I’m certainly not disappointed that there’s one less fanatic in the world. On the contrary, I’m quite relieved. But I sure as hell don’t see this as some event which deserves a “dancing in the streets” celebration.
For me, this is merely Obama’s “Mission Accomplished” victory which he can now use to jumpstart his road back to re-election. Btw, is it mere coincidence that Bush’s “mission accomplished” speech was also on May 1 in the year before HIS re-election? But much like the aftermath of Bush’s proclamation, victory is far from being realized. Will bin Laden’s death really improve the life of the average person? Who is really benefiting from this “victory”?
This SO reminds me of the Gil Scott-Heron poem “Whitey on the Moon” – some excerpts:
I can’t pay no doctor bill. (but Whitey’s on the moon)
Ten years from now I’ll be payin’ still. (while Whitey’s on the moon)
The man jus’ upped my rent las’ night. (‘cause Whitey’s on the moon)
So where are we on attacking the health care and mortgage crises? Don’t know, but Obama done shot Osama.
@ Mr. Stern,
Thank you for your brave service to our country. However sometimes your articles read as if you have just a touch of shell shock, Mr. Stern, the way you keep mixing up the chronological order of events.
Next up was Al Quaeda’s entirely unprovoked twin attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, blowing a couple of hundred civilian embassy workers to smithereens, and maiming another 1800 people. Most of the dead and wounded were local workers, many of them Muslims themselves. Obviously Al Quaeda had no okay from the governments of Kenya or Tanzania to commit mass murder in their names. Then in 1999 Al Quaeda blew a giant hole in the side of the USS Cole, which was at the time peacefully docked for refueling in a port in Yemen, with the blessing of Yemen’s government. That attack, also unprovoked, killed 19 members of the U.S. Navy.
And finally in September of 2001 came Al Quaeda’s horrific, unprovoked murder of thousands of U.S. civilians in New York and Washington D.C.. Which was the final straw. And the key fact to remember is that all of these attacks upon civilians by Al Quaeda came well prior to our entry into Afghanistan and Iraq. Not the other way around, as you would have people believe.
You also keep forgetting, Mr. Stern, that Al Quaeda has never represented the government of any middle eastern or African nation. They have always been a band of extremely violent, bloodthirsty thugs, who roamed the middle east extorting cash from various governments there, to supposedly ensure their “safety”. They were the Mafia of the middle east, squared. And we are supposed to be listening to them as credible representatives of Islam and the middle east, and complying with their territorial demands? You have got to be kidding.
Since September 11th, Al Quaeda has been responsible for thousands more civilian deaths around the world, with their attacks in Madrid, London, Germany, Australia and Indonesia. They just love those “soft targets”, and blowing civilians to smithereens. What is Al Quaeda’s beef with the Islamic country of Indonesia, one might well ask. Well they have diplomatic relations with the United States: a perfect excuse for Al Quaeda to blow up thousands of civilians there.
You have also based your whole hypothetical argument on the entirely bogus number that the U.S. has somehow been responsible for “a million deaths” in the middle east. Hardly. The Wikileaks dump of secret U.S. military documents just revealed that we were responsible for more like 15,000 in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Geometric exaggeration certainly doesn’t lend any legitimacy to your argument. Now that we have finally killed off most of Al Quaeda’s operations in Iraq, the Iraqi people are voting in huge numbers in every election. They are not agitating for the return of Al Quaeda, who previously kept trying to blow up their fellow Muslims as they lined up to vote or shopped in the marketplace. Nobody the world over misses Al Quaeda.
And now Osama Bin Laden sleeps with the fishes. The perfect end to a bloodthirsty international criminal. We have already killed most of the rest of Al Quaeda’s “command and control” in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Yes, there are still some of them around. But we also now have Bin Laden’s computers, which are undoubtedly packed with very helpful information on that score.
@Celui I will be voting for Ron Paul as well.
Ron Paul is the best man for the presidency, no doubt about it. I really like the way you put this out there Mr. Stern.
My sister found this quote, which I find so fitting after the recent events involving bin laden.
”I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.” – Martin Luther King Jr
@ Brian
While I like the quote, those are not MLK’s words:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/fake-martin-luther-king-jr-quote_n_857044.html
Great article. I too will be voting for Ron Paul.
Great article! I too will be voting for Ron Paul.
Too bad the 2 of you can’t vote as many times as you can come here to post under different names!!! What happened at then end there? Did you run out of fake names so the best you could come up with was “USMCvet” and “USNvet”? Bhahaha! Seriously? You get an A for effort, though. But a grade of fail for having a life!
Ezekiel 33:11 (New International Version, ©2011)
11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
Proverbs 24:17/18
17 Do not gloat when your enemy falls;
when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice,
18 or the LORD will see and disapprove
and turn his wrath away from them
As it appears more and more certain that Obama ordered a field-execution of Osama, rather than any attempt to capture and bring him to justice, the “executive’s” (pun-intended) actions might suggest that America has sunk to the barbaric level of her enemies, who delight in summary be-headings.
The Navy Seals informed Bin Laden that his compound was surrounded, and demanded his surrender.
He turned that opportunity down, and instead grabbed his youngest wife in front of him as a human shield. Bad decision on his part.
****
Someone needs a fact check – Obama has backtracked on the details released about the raid – excerpts from BBC article: The woman killed was not his wife. No woman was used as a human shield. And he was not armed.
In addition, someone has completely missed the point of this post. I agree that Seth’s numbers may have been bloated a bit in regards to the numbers of deaths, but that’s not the point of his message. We’re not disputing that bin Laden should have paid for his crimes. We’re just trying to understand what would push someone from his background and education to make the US his sworn enemy. And if you want to discuss some facts about our history with Iraq, here are two.
1) Yes, the Saudis and Kuwatis requested, nay begged the US to intervene in the 1991 Iraqi invasion. But what wasn’t mentioned is the fact that Iraqi originally invaded Kuwait because they were drilling down and over into Iraqi’s oil reserves stealing Iraqi oil. This is a fact and was clearly outlined in the national news stories on TV before the US had decided to commit to a military action. In my book, Sadam was scum like all the other dictators in the world, but you have to ask yourself, what would you do if someone was stealing from you?
2) The US remained Iraq’s number one customer of oil up until one week before the 2003 invasion. Perhaps it was just a coincidence that the go-ahead to invade Iraq was given during that week when Sadam made the decision to completely cut us off as customers. I don’t remember GW mentioning anything about that.
I’m not even going to make this a debate of whether we should be intervening around the world to spread truth, justice, and the American way. I feel we have the right to know ALL the facts and the REAL reasons why we are doing so.
If I may, please;
America I beg of You. Look into Ron Paul’s issues. This guys is as genuine as they come. Mr. Ron Paul is the American system working, literally handing us the “right guy.”
He puts his nation/Constitution first before himself as his 22 year track record indicates.
Please, Mr. Ron Paul for Republican Nomination and then President 2012.
Thank You
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J. Phillips
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