The Rocky Mountain Collegian

you are silly. If you are going to use history to justify who wins the bid for the Olympics lets get a few things straight,

1. Nagano games were in Japan. Japan killed 200,000 Chinese men, women, and children in less than six weeks in 1937 in Nanking.
2. Like you said Germany got the bid, who was responsible for 6 million deaths.
3.Atlanta and Salt Lake, it is not like we dropped two atomic bombs, fire bombed Tokyo, dropped more tonnage of bombs on Vietnam then all the bombs dropped in WWII by the allies. We have plenty of stray animal clinics were cats and dogs get "put-down" all the time. In fact a bomb went off in Atlanta.

SO why should the Chinese not be allowed to host the Olympics?

Oh yea i forgot about people who have the Lou Dobbsian sentiments, "because they are all a bunch of commies, representing the "yellow Peril" of the 21st century."

You really are very silly, at least you do not have mental midget status like Lou dobbs and this possy of anti-sino-world elites.

Wow, only like seven years too late buddy. Why does every single Collegian columnist write only stuff they know from second or third or even fourth hand knowledge....there are local issues in Fort Collins they can write about...instead they get their sources from CNN and The Times..

Agreed with Chris.
The Collegian is insane - Iran should get nuclear power but China shouldn't host the Summer Olympics...

Too late and start writing articles the campus community cares about, or at least ones that are more timely. For instance London gets the games in 2012, so there might still be time to argue why they shouldn't host the Games because it's too rainy or something.

For instance - are any participants in the 2008 Summer Olympics affiliated with CSU?

There's a story for folks to read.

When I looked at the article "China should not host 2008 Olympics", the first thing coming to my mind is " are you kidding me, Phil?"

Phil Elder compared the Adolf Hitler's government with current Chinese government, which absolutely frustrated me. As a Chinese student who are studying in the Journalism Department at CSU, I recognize the strength of Chinese government, as well as the weakness .

Yes, as a developing country which focused mainly on economic development in the past years, China does have the pollution problem, and Chinese government is working on that. But it sounds that Phil Elder doesn't agree with the behavior that Chinese government shut down some factories which had serious gas pollution problems. Phil, are you trying to tell China not to work on the pollution issue? Is the reason strong enough for not hosting the Olympics in China? America always has serious debates about weapon controls, but I never heard that someone use that as a reason that America shouldn't host the Atlanta Olympics in 1996.

How China won the bid to host the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing is through their preparation and hard working shown to the Olympics committee, not through any politics/military force. China showed the committee that how China/Chinese government is willing to improve itself and contribute to the world development. China failed in the bid of 2000 Olympics, which encouraged it to make improvements in the aspects of enviroment, finance, and human rights, etc.

China wants the world to understand it more, which is the main reason why Chinese government is so eager to attend the bid. All the words I have seen from Phil's article is only hatred, no understanding for communism political system, no respect for diversity at all. People should not blame others just because they are different.

China is changing, and the world is changing too. Chinese government brought out a philosophy of "peaceful society, peaceful development", which discusses that Chinese government does care about the world and other groups, at the same time of developing China. Chinese goverment starts to pay more attention on the situation of peasants in the rural areas and laid-off workers as well. That is totally different from Nazi's government. I believe that the philosophy matches very well with the philosophy of Olympics Games.

There are 132 Chinese students studying at CSU. On top of that, we have dozens of postdoctors/researchers at CSU. Has Phil done any interviews/chats with the groups from China to see if they have any problems back to China? Has Phil been to China to have a look by himself? Has Phil tried to be fair when he speaks out? How does Phil dare to slander a country's effort like that?

Phil, I want you to keep the article for 70 years and look at the article that time again, you will know how silly these words are. People will know what is the truth and what is the lie 70 years later.

I was shocked to see this piece of crap on Collegian. Obviously, the writer Phil Elder is a no-brainer who has read lots of negative reports about China and then makes up this 'article'. I would feel ashamed if you are a CSU student who doesn't really seem to be an educated college student. Has any of your professors taught you to tell the truth instead of retelling and believing anything you read?

A fact about Tibet you are obviously ignorant about is: Tibet had been a part of China since hundreds of years ago (I believe it was the Tsing Dynasty) and it wasn't Dalai's homeland at all. Your distorted history knowledge makes us LOL.

Are you a communism-phobia(fear?)? I was shocked again when you equalize China government and 'Mr. Hitler'. You are brain washed this time.

Have you ever been to Beijing or any part of China? Where did you hear Beijing has the worst polluted air in the world?

Human rights? Oh, yeah. Tens of thousands innocent american indians were killed miserably and their land was seized. How many years did it take the US to improve its human rights? Doesn't China need time to improve the human rights? - you tell me.

Lastly, I was shocked to know you as a column writer for Collegian. Can we take Phil off this good news source? Please, for the sake of god, take him off.

Of all the articles/statements opposing China hosting the summer Olympics, this one stood out as one of most appalling, ignorant, and disturbing.

I was astonished at the comparison of China holding the Olympics in 2008 with the Nazi German doing it 70 years ago. However, as I read on, I started to realize that this guy, Phil Elder, didn't even have a single clue of what he was suggesting by this dramatic statement since his history was obviously all messed up.

China was one of the countries who fought back against the Fascists to the last drop of blood and suffered profoundly in the WWII. On the record, 3,211,420 Chinese died in the fight against the invasion of Nazi German's ally, Japan (which, by the way, hosted the hallowed Olympics in less than 20 years afterwards under the support of the US.). Chinese people know the best how invaluable peace is, for any country. It's very emotionally disturbing for anyone from China to see the name of their country being paralleled with Nazi German.

I'm not even going to comment on the rest of the article, which basically is garbage based on a themed collection of who-says-what and unsubstantiated claims.

China has its issues and challenges, so does any other country in the world. This didn't stop any country from hosting the Olympics. And it won't stop China either. Chinese people don't HAVE TO have the Olympics Games hosted in Beijing, we just love to have this opportunity to extend our hospitality, love for peace and willingness to be a responsibility member of the world. It's both surprising and agitating to learn that some people were just this much upset that China was not doing a good job becoming an enemy.

I'm deeply saddened and disappointed by this article of hate, prejudice, and rudeness, even more so by the fact that it was published on the reputable news paper of CSU, where a decent Chinese community resides.

Phil's article is really a good example of arrogance and ignorance. This is also a good example for the action of Smearing China's Image. I feel very disappointed that Collegian published such type senseless article. It is a shame!

Apparently, the writer admires Dalai Lama a lot. But did he know anything about what kind of society Tibet was more than 50 year ago? Did Dalai Lama ever tell his audience what kind of slavery system Tibet was in the past? If Phil did not have any idea about that, I would call it a failure of CSU's education in the political science program; if he knew that, then I would say he had lots of prejudice.

I urge Collegian publish articles on how the Chinese government and Chinese people have been preparing for the 2008 Beijing Olympics Games. Do something constructive!

To be honest, I do not think Beijing should be hosting the games, but their organizing committee promised that changes would come and some have. There are certainly less sanctions on outside media, however, that does not make up for the fact that China is way behind on Human Rights issues. Here are my three biggest concerns about Beijing hosting the world's showcase.
1) They sell arms to governments such as Sudan and Myanmar.
2) The complete lack of payment to forced laborers who are building Olympic sites.
3) China is the only major nation not to have signed the Internation Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The sole goal of this protocol is to make sure countries are maintaining basic Civil and political rights.
I had hoped that some oppression in China would change with the Olympics coming. But I don't think it has. I disagree with Mr. Elder's approaches in this column, but I don't neccesarily disagree with his overall message. One thing is for sure. He is about 7 years to late to the party.

As a Chinese American who lived in US for more than 20 years, I have always appreciated the culture of diversity in this country. When I see local people coming to various minority activities and festivals, my feelings about American people been warm, friendly, and open minded get stronger and stronger every time. Sure, not too often, I encountered situations where some people shown their careless behaviors towards other countries or people from other cultures. I don't mind too much since this is a diversified culture and it allows different opinions to be expressed.

But any statement from a news media is different because of its circulation. They represent the views and ideas the media want people to adhere. And some times they represent the views and ideas of the media itself. Your senior Editor, Mr. Phil Elder's article "China should not host 2008 Olympics", does not only represent his views and ideas, it also represented CSU's opinion or at least it represented "Collegian" s opinion.

I do not think it is right for "Collegian" to publish Mr. Phil Elder's article "China should not host 2008 Olympics" because of his poor understanding of the spirit of Olympics and because of the effects of this article on people's thinking about CSU and "collegian". For instance, a few people in the world today might still think Hitler was right during World War II, which is obviously very wrong. But I don't think any college would want to put that idea on their news paper since it will not be a popular reading.

If "Collegian" wants to express their different feelings about where the 2008 Olympics should be held, they can write a letter to the Olympics Committee and argue with the committee about the criteria they used to choose Beijing as the place for this world event. If they do so, I am sure there will be more facts and considerations in the letter than just some frustrated expressions on a college news media.
For instance, Mr. Elder's last point in his article was that China does not deserve to compete in the Olympics. That is a serious statement! What he said was that one fourth of the world population should be excluded from the Olympics game. I just hope that is not what "Collegian" wants to say.

I agree with Jerry. This is the first time I am so disppointed about the American people. During the two years I spend in Fort Collins. I always thinks people here are nice and friendly. I am not surprised about someone like this Phil still has bias to China. I know misunderstanding exists. I am shocked that Collegian,as a unverisity newspaper who should be fair and considerable published this article!As a state university, CSU writes no discrimination in its policy. However,this article shows obvious discrimination to devoloping coutries.Anyone who cares about learning the facts in China can tell this whole artile is a lie. How can the editor of Collegian didn't notice it?

I was shocked that the editor at Collegian can allow this crap published!! This trend is such a danger that may ruin reputation of CSU and Fort Collins, also hurt the Chinese community and international community here as well. Such a shame! So embarrassing!

The chancellor should stand out and say something to your fellow students and faculty, the author should take some diversity lessons and the editor should also apologize to public. Please do these before too late.

First, I was quite impressed and surprised to learn that the publisher could publish such a poorly written article that lacks of scientific/statistical significance. Therefore, it makes the whole article such a poor argument. I doubt this political Science major knows anything about what is research.

Second, Air Too Dirty to Breathe (http://www.yahoo.com/s/831600), published at yahoo discusses how air has become too unhealthy in 345 US counties to breathe due to smog. My point here is either people like Phil should keep mouth shut since your own country has similar problems or we, everyone regardless of which country we are from should proactively seek strategies to prevent our environment from getting worse. This is not a country wise issue, moreover this is global.

Last, critisize/ blaming is not the key to change. Trying to figure out how we can change is the core issue.

In a nutshell, I am proud of my country who has the population which is 4 times of US population that has made so much progress in various matters especially in economy. China defintely deserves the opportunity. We won the bid with honor.

I got two comments for Mr. Elder's article:

1. The writer of this piece has very poor understanding of the spirit and goal of Olympics. Olympics is and has always been a driving force for world peace, friendship and development for all nations. IOC flag has 5 rings on it. They clearly say that Olympics belong to all human from all continents. However, the author say in his article that "some see this as an inclusion of Asia in a seemingly Europeanized tradition". This is a totally ridicules discrimination statement over Asian people, especially Asian Americans in CSU. It is against the Olympic Treaty too. I like the slogan for the coming Beijing Olympic Games: "One World, One Dream".

2. The author should not compare any group of people or country to Nazi without serious considerations. China is a nation that is in the middle of making herself a responsible member of the international community, improving their domestic situations (including human rights). I do have a lot of concerns as well as a lot of Chinese living in China about the current issues like environment, human rights etc. However, comparing the biggest nation on the way to improving the living standard for 25% of the world population to Nazi which conducted horrible Holocaust in WWII IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. It is not professional way to do your job as a writer for CSU University News Paper though you have freedom of speech as an individual.

As a Chinese American teenager, I've lived almost my entire life in the United States and spent other years traveling the globe and China countless times. Frankly, I'm insulted and shocked at the substance of this article. Not only are there various logical errors and an ignorance for both the interests of China and the Olympics, but the comparison between China currently and Germany after World War I is entirely unfounded.
First of all, China is currently becoming one of the most industrial nations in the world. Due to its necessity in the world in terms of the international economy, its extremely fast development has of course come with problems as well. When looking at the United States itself during the Industrial Age and many other nations around the world such as Great Britain during its industrial process, pollution is a universal problem that has fairly recently been brought into world issues. During the so-called Gilded Age, especially in Chicago, the pollution was definitely comparable to the situation in Beijing today. Additionally, China's population, which is easily five times that of the USA, somewhat justifies the pollution situation. China is also quickly striving to resolve the ever worsening situation, which took many countries around the world decades to realize. China is attempting to resolve these problems as part of the global community and also as a service to its people, not simply to 'attract spectators'. China is using the quickest and most utilitarian methods known to it to clean up the environment. By moving factories, there is a noticeable change in air quality which is greatly contributing to the Chinese lives in Beijing. China is serious about its pollution problem, spending more than 10% of its gross domestic product (the equivalent of more than $200 billion) a year in an effort to improve its cities. Another very obvious fallacy - Beijing is not, in fact, the most polluted city in the world. Although, Linfen, China is included in the list of the top 10 most polluted cities in the world and Beijing is surely quite high in the rankings, the lack of true solid research with firm foundations in this editorial is astounding. Concerning the other issues, consider multiple causation. The reason why China is currently taking action is not just for the Olympics to provide a 'fake' view of a beautiful China. Homelessness is prevalent in China and strays are widely known to spread diseases such as rabies and deplete the hygiene of any city. In dealing with the homeless and stray animals, measures that have worked for other countries are simply ineffective in China because it is less developed. I agree that solving the stray situation in China by killing cats and dogs is quite immoral, but how is it any more moral to herd up all these animals and either let them fight to death in a fenced area or starve with no hope of future ownership? It is unlikely that a Chinese citizen would pick up a stray, dirty, disease-ridden animal off the street to raise it. The ways of dealing with the huge number of strays are limited because of China's social culture. As for transporting beggars to outside camps: first of all, this process is highly unlikely because of the transportation, construction, and maintenance costs. Second, I'm sure if this was actually occurring, there would be quite an uproar. Your source of 'Metro Media' isn't linked in your article or anywhere else on the World Wide Web nor is your claim supported by any other news sources.
As for the numerous falsehoods about the Dalai Lama and China's reasoning behinds its actions, I can only be amused. The Dalai Lama is the head of state and the spiritual leader of the Tibetan people. Your claim that the 'Chinese Army massacred his family and village in 1959 in an attempt to quell the rumor that the next reincarnation of the Buddha of Compassion may have been Tibetan' is absolutely ridiculous and ignorant because the previous 13 Dalai Lamas have all been Tibetan and believed to be reincarnations of the same Buddha of Compassion, Avalokitesvara. The current Dalai Lama was recognized at the age of two in 1937, twenty-two years before his family was 'killed', therefore disproving your argument. In fact, his family was not killed in 1959. According to the Dalai Lama's official website, what I would call a fairly reliable source, in 1959, "His Holiness, now disguised as a common soldier, slipped past the massive throng of people along with a small escort and proceeded towards Kyichu river, where He was joined by the rest of the entourage, including his immediate family members." As for your arguments concerning China's oppression of Tibet, I have no true opinion on whether or not China should withdraw its control of Tibet because I have not researched all facets of the situation. I suggest you do the same.
As for your claim of China "bribing and threatening large numbers of members of the International Olympic Committee" in order to obtain votes, not only is it far too late to bring it up, but there is no substantial support at all for that statement. Lesh Dunlop, a human rights worker, would not have any foundation for saying this outrageous claim. He is also not recorded saying it. Although the Congressman Tom Lantos did, when asked by Wang Jian Wei for the sources and evidence, he did not provide any. If you are going to endorse these flimsy, transparent lies in your writing, please at least have enough respect for the Collegian readers to provide a correct source.
The Olympics are, first and foremost, competitions of sport. Hosting an internationally recognized sports competition is not 'deserved' by an important participant? How is that logical? "According to the Olympic Charter, established by Pierre de Coubertin, the goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practised without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play" (Olympics Website). By allowing the Olympic games to be hosted in countries with different practices and different governments, the Olympics is trying to establish the spirit of friendship and the mutually peaceful relationships throughout the world and between different countries. This openmindedness is a core part of the Olympic charter. Certainly with your unsupported claims and closemindedness towards Chinese development, 'fair play' is not achieved. Also, the Olympic Games being traditionally European is laughable because there have been Asian participants for many years before the first Asian nation hosted them. The Olympic principles encourage respect for different cultures and internationalism, not European imperialism.
As for your implied claim that by letting China host the 2008 Olympic Games like Germany did those of 1936 China would ultimately produce an infamous Nazi dictator with intensely reactionary beliefs (which are widely the OPPOSITE of Communist beliefs which are on the radical side of the political spectrum) who will initiate the next largest genocide in the history of the world, I would like to point out the many fallacies. By your logic, any country that has or will host the Olympics who has a non-representative government with a corrupt leader and a racist foundation will be the next Nazi Germany. China is not in this position at all. Although by Western political culture, Communism and socialism are entirely unfounded and repressive, China has greatly improved their stance on human rights since the Democratic Movement of 1989. There have been huge leaps in allowing people's views and the system is fairly operable in a country such as China. Also, Hitler founded the Holocaust on the basis of a nation already in the midst of Anti-Semitism due to the Jews being historically more economically upstanding and their ability to survive, tracing back all the way to the Black Plague. He adopted his beliefs on race not just because of his own ideas but because his rallying against the Jewish race would attract more supporters and popularity. I do not percieve any revolution even remotely similar to this in China. I also do not find any basis for your comparison in your editorial.
I cannot say that all motives of the People's Republic of China are pure, nor am I a Communist. I am a member of the democratic society of the United States of America. Even in the US in the midst of the Cold War in McCarthyism, during the Salem Witch Trials, persecution of individuals, innocent or not, was widely acceptable. China is a developing nation with a political and social culture utterly different from that of other stable and 'prestigious' countries.
As a political science major, I would expect you to put some thought and effort into analysis and research for your fairly elementary editorial. I would hope that for your next inflammatory article, you could inject some sources so that your argument would be less easy to tear apart. As a member of the Fort Collins society, I'm quite affronted at the lack of respect and knowledge you have as a political science major at CSU of one of the oldest countries in the world.

The article implies that its real title be "Phil Elder, majored in political science at CSU, should not graduate as a senior - Collegian should provide enough supporting evidence for this".

PS. This poor guy even forgot how to correctly spell the English name of his major - "political" instead of "politicial" is an English word.

My name is Philip. I am a Chinese. I neither care about the China or International politic issues, nor I have time to care about it. But I think i should tell some true after i read this topic. What i know very well is that the China,even the world will be much different without the China Communist Party.
1. The China Communist Party has made the China economic grow fastest in the world, which do great favour to the development of the world economic. Pls simply just look around, I am sure that almost everyone all over the world will find that they benefit great much from the three words:"Made in China".
2. I always worried about my breakfast,lunch and supper when i was a small boy. But i have my own car to develop my business, after 10 years of education and 3 years hard work. I do not think i can get this kind of good environment to develop myself without the China Communist Party.
3. How many of you know the above things? What i want to say is that the International Olympic Committee have done a great decision! It will make many people to know more about the great country. It will make the great county keeping improving to affect the world. If we only want to focus on the Olympic Games, just focus on it. It has nothing to do with issues of Tibet and human rights. There are just someone doing something meaningless to against the game. Nothing to worry about. If you want to talk something about the Tibet,the human rights or the China government, just speak out pls, I believe that your views will make China government to make some improvements. The more you say, the better. Maybe your good views will make you see more good words around you some day. For example,"created in China, benefiting the world"

Sorry for my poor English, i am not sure whether i am writing exactly what i want to write. But hope that you will understand what i want to write!

Yes Phillip you are right we do have many things that say MADE IN CHINA. We benefit from them also.

But then again we benefited and so did the world from, our slaves in America. That was wrong and so is the slave work force China uses to make those goods.

So just saying hey we are great because Communists make money is a weak and immoral argument on its face.

China does not deserve the wright to hold the Olympics it is a fucked up country they, have a high rate of child labor, no law on animal cruelty they slaughter dogs on the street and eat them , they steel peoples pets!! It is a greedy country, now i no why so many come to my country to live New Zealand, because there governments ae so fucked up!! Chinese are better of out!

God, you shouldn't do anything as half a million Iraq civilians were killed by US

It was a huge mistake to let China host the Olympic games. Not just because their infrastructure and climate can't and won't adequately support or enable athletes to perform at a high level; but because their government and ways of handling themselves leaves much to be desired. Now they are saying that they will monitor internet traffic, going back on their word.
Lets have the next Olympic games in Ethiopia next for crying out-loud. A stupid premature decision. It will be the worst Olympic games in history – guaranteed!

Beijing should host the olympics as every country has the right to.

Ur all just fukin jealous that China won the olympic and just blame it on Beijing for hosting it.

this is a stupid topic and i believe that Beijing does have the right to host the olympics.

THey also did a good job at it as they are a large population. How about you try to host it with such a large population and a huge crime rate.

Beijing does have a right as they brock 40 world records
P.S FUCK YOU ALL Who disagree

I agree Jimmy. China has many flaws but so do many nations that held the Olympics.

Didn't some Aryan guy have the Olympics in his country a while back , LOL!

You can say what you want about China's deficiencies , but if you honest you'll admit they threw the best Olympics I can remember seeing.

The opening and closing ceremonies alone were a visual and auditory feast.

We had friends over last night to watch the closing ceremonies and we have a 65" Hi Def TV. Man it was awesome.

Absolutely spectacular.

I hear a lot of anger from the U.S. Chinese population - why? Are you proud of the way your country treats your people. Are you proud of their human rights, or thier fair trade practices, or the fact that they lead th world in paying hackers to bring our computer systems down? Is this what you are defending when many of us see it as a travasty that the Olympics were hosted ther? And yes, there are many countries in the world that don't deserve to have that honor.

You Did ur Research Came Up With A Couple Of Reasons And Find I Capitalize Every Letter Of Every Word!Good Job!!!