The Rocky Mountain Collegian

Originally posted by

BA

First amendment rights stop when you choose to violate another's space! Your right to throw your fist ends before it gets to my nose!

dont read the paper. if i was using my freedom of speech on the street corner than what would you do then? walk away and ignore me.

Originally posted by

BA

First amendment rights stop when you choose to violate another's space! Your right to throw your fist ends before it gets to my nose!

Your analogy is so off-base it isn't funny. The 1st Amendment does not bar people from insulting or even offending someone. If that were the case, half the people writing comments on this board would be in jail right now. Yes, free speech is not absolute, but it is much more free than you indicate here. And what does, "violating another's space" mean in this context?

Originally posted by

Col. Cowbell

Wow, you must have one hell of a journalism school out there at CSU!

Such insightful analysis! Such cutting commentary! Such sophisticated satire! Such persuasive arguments and poetic rhetoric!

I think it's great that this clown McSwane showed himself to be the silly, sophomoric, attention-seeking fraud that he apparently is.

It's also ironic that he would reference the dope who made such an @ss of himself in Florida. Too bad neither of them have anything more substantial to contribute to the dialog than crybaby temper tantrums and incoherent potty talk.

You're sure to go far, McLame!

Col Cowbell,

I would ask you this would you apply "sophomoric temper tantrums and incoherent potty talk" to Vice President Dick Cheney when he told Senator Leahy to "Go F---- yourself" on the floor of the senate, in front of live television cameras?

And just out of curiosity I wonder why you think an American citizen should be tasered and put in handcuffs for doing nothing more than asking a question at a public forum?

Originally posted by

Col. Cowbell

Wow, you must have one hell of a journalism school out there at CSU!

Such insightful analysis! Such cutting commentary! Such sophisticated satire! Such persuasive arguments and poetic rhetoric!

I think it's great that this clown McSwane showed himself to be the silly, sophomoric, attention-seeking fraud that he apparently is.

It's also ironic that he would reference the dope who made such an @ss of himself in Florida. Too bad neither of them have anything more substantial to contribute to the dialog than crybaby temper tantrums and incoherent potty talk.

You're sure to go far, McLame!

I couldn't agree with you more.

Can't you just see Mr. McSwine and his editorial entourage "putting on their thinking caps" to come up with a way to make a simplistic four-word remark substitute for an actual editorial?

And what they come up with is putting it in REALLY BIG LETTERS TO FILL UP THE PAGE?

Just priceless. It will make a perfect "bit" for the next Animal House movie.

Originally posted by

Eric

"Free" Speech 101 by David McSwane. Thus far, after Mr. McSwane penned his literary masterpiece, his right to free speech has cost the University at least $30,000+ in advertising revenue, will or should cost him his job, is going to cost him attorney's fees since he has elected to hire one to speak for him at an administrative review (take note, David, attorneys charge for their speech, it ain't free), and will next, if the scenario plays out, cost the university money to defend itself in a lawsuit that Mr. McSwane is "troubled" about filing "at this point."

We'll see how "troubled" he actually is should he be justifiably fired for harming his employer.

According to Mr. McSwane, "This fight is not about financial gain" (time will tell that) "but rather defending the Editorial Board's First Amendment rights."

God help the university should Mr. McSwane ever discover there's more than one Amendment.

hey jackass, the 30,000 comes from advertising revenue, not the university.

its an independent student newspaper, not a financially supported arm of the university.

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Since you're calling names - usually the resort of those who have no argument - I assume someone has hit a nerve. Interesting. Let's all be honest here. Your not really offended by the f-word as is evident in your above post. Why don't you add something of value to the comment board that we can all benefit from? And no screaming please.

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Really don't understand what you mean by calling names. And where am I screaming? You mean when I quoted his lawyer in a hypothetical response? Please reread my post again. I really think you are the one that needs to add something to this argument. Did you learn to read and interpret english in the same classes McSwane took for journalism?

No. I am not a journalism student. I am a law student with an emphasis in civil rights and environmental law. I would like to point out that your original comment provided me nothing to argue upon. You wrote an entire post of nothing but emotional questions. Its called the "appeal to emotion" fallacy. "Appeal to emotion" is a logical fallacy which uses the manipulation of the recipient's emotions, rather than valid logic, to win an argument. Then you place yourself on the same level as McSwane, the person that you are arguing against, by using the f-word on a student forum. Then in your second comment, last sentence, you attempt to attack me by using the "ad hominem" fallacy. But I already went over that fallacy with someone else on this board. Look it up. Do you have anything beneficial to provide to us on the subject or are you going to continue with your ranting?

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Excuse me, what makes you assume I posted that comment for you at argue with me? Did you just reply to that post to show me you learnt something in Law School? Everything you said in your first response to my post addressed something I did not say. Is this some sort of lawyerly misdirection or plain incomprehension? Let me ask you again, what does the name calling refer to in my post? Who said I was offended by the use of the F-word? My post was about threats. Is this kind of interpretation taught to you in law school? Please reread my original post and show me where I was offended by the F-word, or called anyone names. Now you said my response contained an "ad hominem" attack, if someone displays the arrogance to completely reinterpret the clear written word of someone else therefore thinking that other people cannot read wouldn't you question their ability to read?

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

OK. Fair. I'll give that one to you. "Name calling" was a little off. My apologies for not reading your post more closely. But now that we finally know what your post is about. Who is making threats? McSwane? Isn't McSwane the one whose job is being threatened? I don't even support the guy's decision to print the f-word in a college newspaper. He should be reprimanded. But lose his job? All that he did was make a bad decision by printing some noname's comment who obviously has a limited vocabulary. And on being offended by the f-word? Isn't that why you are devoting your time and energy to this issue? If you Is it because "Bush" came after it? But see, then you would be making it a political issue. And if its the "Bush" part that offends you then by supporting McSwane's resignation that would make you against our right to free speech. Or, are you only offended by McSwane's simple statement of "I have no plans to sue CSU at this point." I am questioning your motives because I am trying to figure out why you are on this comment board trying to get everyone emotional if you are not offended by something.

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

McSwane is the editor of a College Newspaper, the Newspaper's goal is to publish news for the benefit of informing the Student body and the College Administrators of facts that relate to them. The Collegian is not McSwane's personal soapbox to publicize himself or what is happening in his life to try to elicit sympathy or use as a forum to convey implied threats especially when what he is saying is contrary to the facts. The CBS4 article he is talking about did not say he was suing CSU. It says specifically "The editor of the student newspaper at Colorado State University is threatening to sue if he is fired over a controversial editorial that appeared in last Friday's paper." Yet here is McSwane declaring that he was not interviewed and that the CSU4 report is "...grossly inaccurate..." Now step back and begin to realize that he has taken every opportunity to bring publicity to himself. He has used a Newpaper with a reputation that he was responsible for, as a rag so he could gain national notoriety. Why is it only McSwane that is writing all these articles? Where are the othe r editotial board members? Maybe such notoriety is something they shun? What possible purpose is there in getting Ward Churchill's lawyer Mr. Lane to be your defense attorney and yet nothing has happened to McSwane? He has not be censored, (this very article shows he can write whatever he pleases) he has not been fired, his pay has not been docked, he is not suspended. McSwane is proving himself to be selfish and self centered, he could have written the "Taser this.." line in his own publication, maybe a blog, but no he abused his authority and used a College Newspaper. And now in an effort to sway the people who will decide his fate, he threatens a lawsuit.

Thank you for your stance. I tend to agree with you on most of what you said, and now that I know your motives for being against McSwane I respect them. What I don't agree with are the number of people who are trying to push for McSwane's resignation because of their hidden political agendas. They are all over this board and all over the major news media. They just won't admit that what they are really pissed about is that "Bush" came after "F&%K" I don't even like McSwane, but I do like my first amendment rights. And if someone wants to make it a political issue I will defend him. As for defending his character, that is a different story. It probably wasn't the best idea for the College Republicans to speak out and organize a petition. This made it a political issue and not an issue of McSwane's professionalism as an editor.

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Unfortunately, McSwane himself made this political. He knew he was going to push a button, he knew exactly what was going to happen. "Taser this" was not enough of a statement especially since news reports were being made that the Florida Taserboy incident was deliberately staged. Make political statement and political people respond.

Ok. Fine. Lets say McSwane made it political. It really doesn't matter. Answer this one question. Should McSwane be reprimanded or forced to resign for making political statements? It is a yes or no answer.

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Tom,

It appears that you are avoiding my simple question. "Should McSwane be reprimanded or forced to resign for making political statements?" It is a yes or no question. The ball is in your court. If you don't answer I will assume that it is game over.

Originally posted by

Tom

"I have no plans to sue CSU at this point. "

Is this a threat? Are you saying that if you are fired you will sue? Are you using CSU's own college paper to threaten them? What will you print tomorrow? Maybe you have some rumors about the people who fire you that will defame their character? Or will it be "My lawyer says "FUCK CSU!"

Originally posted by

Tim Wieland

I'm the News Director at CBS4 and would like to defend our reporting. Our story did not say that Mr. McSwane IS suing the university, as he suggests. We reported that McSwane is prepared to file a lawsuit IF he is fired. That is the statement of McSwane's attorney, David Lane. Mr. Lane told us directly, "If CSU tries to censor him it better be ready to defend itself in federal court." Lane also told us, "If I can make a case that the government is putting a gag in McSwane's mouth they're going to court." It could not be more clear from those statements that Mr. McSwane is threatening to file a lawsuit against Colorado State University if he is terminated.

Tim, are you really the director at CBS4? And if so, why do you find it necessary to defend yourself on a college newspaper comment board that very few people read as well as imply that Mr. McSwane is lying? Please provide us with your direct number and email address so that we may discuss this with you. Or at least your address and suite number so that we can send you a letter. As you can see by my name above, you can be anyone on this board. Why don't you provide us with a little bit of hard proof. Thanks.

Originally posted by

Tim Wieland

I'm the News Director at CBS4 and would like to defend our reporting. Our story did not say that Mr. McSwane IS suing the university, as he suggests. We reported that McSwane is prepared to file a lawsuit IF he is fired. That is the statement of McSwane's attorney, David Lane. Mr. Lane told us directly, "If CSU tries to censor him it better be ready to defend itself in federal court." Lane also told us, "If I can make a case that the government is putting a gag in McSwane's mouth they're going to court." It could not be more clear from those statements that Mr. McSwane is threatening to file a lawsuit against Colorado State University if he is terminated.

Here is the link, CBS4 only said that he was threantening to file a lawsuit. Also note that McSwane's lawyer is also Ward Churchill's lawyer.

http://cbs4denver.com/local/local_story_269083151.html

Originally posted by

Dan

"You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it." -the Clash (1982)

Shame on CBS4 (KCNC-TV) for inventing a story. And shame on all you "Americans" for not supporting free speech. Free speech applies to all, not just those you agree with. I'm offended by the huge posters of aborted babies that they put up each year on campus, but I realize they have a right to free speech, which does include potentially offensive material.

$30,000 in lost advertising revenue? Prove it! Lets hear from the people who "pulled their advertising dollars". I want to see a list. I think that figure was estimated assuming that all of their advertisers would pull their ads for the 07-08 school year, or possibly longer. They might have even included loss of potential new clients.

I want to see a list, so I can boycott these advertisers. Maybe start a nation-wide boycott of these un-American wimps. With the national attention this is getting, I would expect a lot of people would join such a boycott (which is probably underway as I type this). You watch, advertising dollars will actually rise as new clients who support free speech choose to advertise in this formerly unknown college paper.
I bet they actually print more of that edition, because people around the country (if not the world) want a copy of it. It is a very popular sentiment, and the headline will be plastered on many refrigerator doors. Keep up the controversy!

You wish, you mental midget!
Those who pick & chose the rights they like are neither patriotic or American. You are the dumb fuck that throws a tantrum when someone voices an opinion that you don't agree with. You never support the right to bear arms. You would try and contort the constitution nine ways from Sunday to find away tat only you and Rosy O'Donnell can own guns. You are nothing more than a mental midget and a hypocrite.
An honest man or woman would have demanded that paper print the truth . .Taser this, Fuck Kerry!

Originally posted by

Dan

"You have the right to free speech, as long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it." -the Clash (1982)

Shame on CBS4 (KCNC-TV) for inventing a story. And shame on all you "Americans" for not supporting free speech. Free speech applies to all, not just those you agree with. I'm offended by the huge posters of aborted babies that they put up each year on campus, but I realize they have a right to free speech, which does include potentially offensive material.

$30,000 in lost advertising revenue? Prove it! Lets hear from the people who "pulled their advertising dollars". I want to see a list. I think that figure was estimated assuming that all of their advertisers would pull their ads for the 07-08 school year, or possibly longer. They might have even included loss of potential new clients.

I want to see a list, so I can boycott these advertisers. Maybe start a nation-wide boycott of these un-American wimps. With the national attention this is getting, I would expect a lot of people would join such a boycott (which is probably underway as I type this). You watch, advertising dollars will actually rise as new clients who support free speech choose to advertise in this formerly unknown college paper.
I bet they actually print more of that edition, because people around the country (if not the world) want a copy of it. It is a very popular sentiment, and the headline will be plastered on many refrigerator doors. Keep up the controversy!

Well said. I completely agree. I want to see what idiotic advertisers would pull out funding when they know that everyone is going to be reading the Collegian now. That would be the biggest mistake possible on the part of a business. Print this so called list and any letters that have been sent to you by advertisers. If I recall from reading the paper, most of the advertisers are liquor stores, bars, tattoo parlors, and tan shops so I doubt that they would be offended by the use of the word and would pull out advertising.

Originally posted by

Jared

As a proud alum of this fine University this is down right embarrassing to see a young punk like this come in and create unnecessary negative news like this that is in the national spotlight. Just admit it, you messed up. Letting something like that be published in the paper is career suicide. How you have handled yourself since then, you should either A) shoot yourself in the face, or B) change your major. It would have been more respectable if you would have taken blame for it, and stepped down. Newspapers are in the business to make money, a major revenue source is advertising and they can't afford to lose several thousands of dollars because a punk like you. Potential employers will only use your resume in the future like how they should, and that is to wipe their ass with it.

Nice vocabulary! If you have a degree from anywhere I feel sorry for you. "Shooting yourself in the face" and "wiping their ass with it" are very educated ways to prove your point. By the way. Since you are a proud alum of this fine univerisity, shouldn't you be working right now instead of writing obscenities on a college newspaper board?

It's pretty sad how many clan members are in this McLame squad. Have you ever heard of down time at work? Shouldn't you be in class? You ladies aren't worth my time, so I will let you continue living the sad life you live.

Originally posted by

Jared

As a proud alum of this fine University this is down right embarrassing to see a young punk like this come in and create unnecessary negative news like this that is in the national spotlight. Just admit it, you messed up. Letting something like that be published in the paper is career suicide. How you have handled yourself since then, you should either A) shoot yourself in the face, or B) change your major. It would have been more respectable if you would have taken blame for it, and stepped down. Newspapers are in the business to make money, a major revenue source is advertising and they can't afford to lose several thousands of dollars because a punk like you. Potential employers will only use your resume in the future like how they should, and that is to wipe their ass with it.

Hmm. I don't remember joining any McLame squad? Definitely not a clan member. I am a law student. Studying civil rights and environmental law. You are using what is called the "ad hominem" fallacy to counter my comment. The "ad hominem" fallacy consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to an irrelevant or false characteristic about the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. Do you have anything beneficial to provide on the subject? Or are you going to continue to prove my point about being uneducated by labeling me a clan member and so forth?

Originally posted by

Jared

As a proud alum of this fine University this is down right embarrassing to see a young punk like this come in and create unnecessary negative news like this that is in the national spotlight. Just admit it, you messed up. Letting something like that be published in the paper is career suicide. How you have handled yourself since then, you should either A) shoot yourself in the face, or B) change your major. It would have been more respectable if you would have taken blame for it, and stepped down. Newspapers are in the business to make money, a major revenue source is advertising and they can't afford to lose several thousands of dollars because a punk like you. Potential employers will only use your resume in the future like how they should, and that is to wipe their ass with it.

Originally posted by

Proper

This is a very interesting situation. If the original article were published in the Opinion section, submitted by myself or anyone, would this have happened? Probably not...

Now, before you jump on me and say that this issue has developed due to McSwane using his editorial power to "shove this down our throats", I would take a poll of any diverse group of people - say Americans. How many of us have thought or said "F - Bush" in the last year or six? I would bet hard-earned money that more hands would go up than stay down.

And your point is? You're comparing apples to eggplant. No one is saying he (or anyone) can't disseminate their feelings toward Bush, but to do so in an obviously immature manner (and, may I remind you of the consequences for uttering that word and others on live radio/tv/etc.) within a publication that is not a forum for such speech is, to put it bluntly, stupid.

That word has no place in a professional publication. Try and use that word at the next board meeting. Go ahead. I dare you.

What you say on your own time is your dang business. What you say in a magazine that is known for obscene material and/or tolerates such things is your dang business.

But the Rocky Mountain Collegiann is not Foul Mouthed Monthly magazine; it's a professional publication. There is a difference. But you knew that, right?

Time out. Since when did the government "shut down Imus?" MSNBC and CBS caved in to pressure from Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Actually, dropping their advertisements is their right, and their way of expressing their view. Should you not be supporting everyone's right? Or are you only supporting the right to free speech if it lines up with your views?

Originally posted by

Dave

Where is the list of wussies that dropped their advertisements? I am going out to dinner and I want to know which wussie places to avoid.